Spare the rod? Struggling with spanking

Spanking is something that should only be done by the parents. I would never consider spanking anyone else's children. Never.

As a former teacher, I had to deal with more than my share of discipline problems, but teachers who spank are teachers who are sued and not just by the parents of those bad kids.   I find it more than a bit ironic that in states where corporal punishment is used in schools the most also have some of the worst school in the country.

Spanking is something that should only be done by the parents. I would never consider spanking anyone else's children. Never.

As a former teacher, I had to deal with more than my share of discipline problems, but teachers who spank are teachers who are sued and not just by the parents of those bad kids. I find it more than a bit ironic that in states where corporal punishment is used in schools the most also have some of the worst school in the country.

"Most were spanked as children themselves (81 percent) and know that it's socially unacceptable, yet they don't always know what to do when they're at their wits end." It has NOTHING to do with being at your wit's end. It SHOULD NOT be done because you're angry, but as a consequence for behavior that you have already laid out is unacceptable.

"Another was horrified at the thought and said she would never spank her children: "I don't hit my friends, so why would it be appropriate to hit my own daughters?" she asked." Because we're talking about children, not adults. I am not responsible for training my friends. I am, however, responsible for introducing a well-behaved, well-mannered, productive and functional human being into the world once my children grow up. What a stupid comparison.

Spanking is not on par with child abuse by any means, but it is lazy parenting.

Bottom line is that parents who spank are lazy parents. It's so easy to hit a kid and say "now learn from that." So much harder and time consuming to teach them the right and acceptable ways of the world. If I hear one more time "I was spanked and I'm OK and now I spank my kids and they're OK." Well, DUH, see a pattern. You and your children are not okay. I bet the spanking parents can hardly wait for grandchildren to hit. You hit children because it makes YOU feel good.

It's interesting how this article and video do not address the recent special on the Today Show on the study that spanking lowers a child's IQ. I agree that spanking is not abuse, but I do hope parents are aware that it is in no way developmentally appropriate or healthy for young children and can be quite damaging to all areas of a child's development.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/33013187

To Sarah 1477623: It is painfully obvious that you are still in that narcissistic phase of life and w/o children. I do sympathize that some parents are not considerate or thoughtful about taking their children out but you assume that every child acting out is a bad seed fostered by a bad parent. Even good kids and good parents are subject to meltdowns. My husband and I do avoid restaurants at a later hour and we choose places that are geared toward families rather than adults. That said, I have spanked my 31/2 year old only in extreme cases such as running in a parking lot or store. Or as a last resort when he has been warned that it might result in a spanking and other consequences have not stopped the behavior. I have never nor will ever spank my child because he inconveniences or bothers someone else. Not that he as the right to hurt other people, or be rude. I'm sorry if his crying bothers you but we have the same right to dinner or shopping as you do. He is only 3 you are older - act like it. Smack him just because he bothers you. Yes, meltdowns are painful and some parents do contribute to them. But I am trying to TEACH him how to behave better not beat him into submission. There is abig difference in why you use this form of punishment. My son has taught me many things. One time, our power had been out due to a storm for three days. I was 9 months pregnant and we had to go to a hotel due to the heat. By the time we checked in and got to dinner, it was close to bedtime and past dinner time. He was not as bad as he oculd have been but he didi play with things, knock things over and begin to meltdown. My husband took him outside and quietly but firmly explanined that while we understood his frustration it was unacceptable to behave this way and we would have to leave if he continued. He was better for the rest of the meal. It is hard for such a little guy to express his frustration at the change to his life. It seems silly to us but we are adults and understand such things. His mind is not ready for that. What good was a beating do? Instead, we verified his feelings but explained that it was unaccapetable and he had to find a better way. Teachable moment.

My parents spanked us quite a bit and still push my sister and I to spank. Know what my 3 1/2 year old does when I hit him for hitting? He hits again. How can I tell him hitting his brother or me is wrong and then hit him? It does not register. Take away his favorite toys, put him in his room, that devastates him. When I have spanked him, either as a last resort or to demonstrate how he hurts us, I do not approach him in anger. I think that is a real key to the spanking issue. I try to not hit in anger or retaliation. A friend also gave me a great tool when her pre-schooler was melting down and could not calm down to sit on time out: She put him in a cold shower. It cools them down and they remember it. If my little guy starts to throw a fit, I remind him of that and he tries to calm himself. Now he is learning to control his emotions.

Oh and Sarah, time out DOES work when done consistently and swiftly. Some parents and children may need another form of timeout or suspension of privileges but spanking should always be the last resort not the first. I hope that should you have children, you are far more patient and forgiving with them than you are with the rest of us.

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It's interesting how this article and video did not address the recent spection on the Today Show about the relationship between spanking and IQ (see the link below). While I do agree that spanking is not abuse, I do hope parents are aware that spanking is in no way considered developmentally appropriate or healthy for children and can be damaging to all areas of a child's development.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/33013187

I spanked my daughter once. In 1994 (when she was 2) she quarreled with her mother over going to the store and after her mother left without her she ran out of the house, down the driveway and into the street after her. I ran out and retrieved her and gave her a couple of firm slaps on the butt.

She cried! And I felt lower than whale poop. She calmed down and we destroyed a package of Oreos together. I never laid a hand on her after that - all unacceptable behavior was discussed and then a punishment-to-fit-the-crime was agreed upon.

It's hard to reason with a 2 year old but it can be done (patience!). Needless to say it paid off large dividends as she got older.

It's interesting that this article and video do not address the recent special on the Today Show about the relationship between spanking and a child's IQ level (see below link). While I agree that spanking is not abuse, I do hope parents realize that it is not developmentally appropriate and can actually be harming a child in all areas of their development.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/33013187

Not all forms of reprimand/punishment works for all situations OR on all children. My Father never once raised a hand to my sister or me - but, as a retired Police Officer who dealt with many out of control juveniles, he has always said 'Never Underestimate the Fear Factor'. It is not abuse - abuse is not teaching them manners and discipline. Abuse is also not teaching them that there are consequences for their actions, not teaching them respect, and not teaching them authority - BUT still expecting them to be model citizens when they grow up. Hmmmm....and we wonder what's wrong with this world!

Spanking WORKS.  But spanking should not be the first option in discipline, nor should it be done 'all the time'.  The ignorant person who stated she doesn't hit her friends so she shouldn't hit her kids is not informed that kids are not friends.  There is NO WAY reasoning with a 2-5 year old works in the middle of their temper trantrum.  People who beat their kids are criminals.  What I use is:

1) verbal warning that the actions/words are unacceptable, and that they need to stop.

2) if the behaviour continues let them know that if they keep it up they will get in trouble.

3) if the behaviour continues I ask them point blank if they want a spanking, because if they do, I can give it to them right now, if not behave and they will be fine.

4) if the behaviour still continues I remove them from the situation/environment and tell them that they are going to get a spanking because they are unable to respond/react correctly to the corrections I have given.  I also let them know that I love them it was not my choice to give them a spanking but their choice to recieve one.  AND if they continue they will get another.

I usually don't have to spank my 5 year old anymore as he understands the consequences and levels of escalation, but everyone once in a while he checks to make sure the rules still apply, and they do!

It isn't hard to look around and see what 40 years since that doctor wrote on the  evils of discipline back in the 60s has done to society.  To watch a screaming disobedient kid control his/her parents and the parents just stand there like they don't know what to do, and all the talking that the parents do and the kid still stands there screaming, all of this shows that a good swat on the behind would pull a halt to it instantly.  When my parents spoke, we knew that we had better be listening.  (They did allow for the fact that we may not have heard them the first time, and so they would say it again.  But the third time and it was a trip to the bedroom).  My parents didn't have to yell or scream.  They spoke and we knew the consequences ahead of time.  They always reminded us that they wanted our attention, so that if a bus was headed in our direction, they could save our lives.  There is a difference between discipline and abuse.  But the liberals have made the two equal, so that everyone is afraid of doing anything. 

Keep "sparing the rod", and watch this society slide even further down the proverbial crapper. The next time you complain about how kids today have no respect, stop and think about it. Kids need to know that there are more serious repercussions to their actions than a "time out".

The hand that gives love shouldn't also give pain.  There's no other relationship in our society in which striking is sanctioned.   You can't hit your spouse.  Your employer can't hit you.  But in the relationship which already has the biggest difference in power and lack of recourse if it gets out of hand, we approve of it.  Back in colonial times, it was legal for a man to strike his wife with a stick for her "misbehavior."  The term "rule of thumb" came from the rule that the stick could be no thicker than his thumb.

The very low crime rate in the Scandinavian countries, where spanking is illegal, disproves the link between non-spanking and bad behavior.  The meaning of being a Christian has been terribly distorted.  Jesus was the prince of peace and promoted love and understanding.  I don't know where people get the idea that He would approve of giving pain to a misbehaving child. 

Both of my kids are responsible, polite and live life with excitement.  Neither has ever been struck.  Discipline without spanking is harder because you have to explain things.  It makes parents more involved with their kids on a personal level, so it takes more time.  But it is so worth it.

When I was younger, my parents spanked us which wasn't very often. I grew up thinking it was okay and I still do as long as it isn't in public. Now I have 2 stepdaughters. My husband is totally against spanking his kids, so I've never spanked them. It's hard being in this position because they aren't mine. Yelling at them, counting to 3, timeouts, taking things away...helps for a little bit but 1 hour later there back to the same thing. So what else can I can??? =-)

Maryfrances, people like you that use words in general can make something seem like its all the time...or worse then it is, if you are not there 24/7 and you may see she her spank when her children may need it, might seem like all the time to you! But now I agree some take it to an extreem... need to be sure it is for punishment and not out of angry issues.... moderation on all issues works well... maybe you should have been spanked since you seem to keep going on and on and on.... your not listening....

My siblings & I were abused, not spanked, as children. Think broomsticks, bats, fists, broken bones, etc. My sister adopted our brother's daughters after his wife died. They had developmental issues way past ADHD. They also lived in an area with an active child killer- & fit his profiled victims perfectly. That said, my sister was consistent in her discipline. She would tell them where they were going & the behavior she expected (we are going to 3 stores. hold the cart & stay next to mommy. if you do, you will get a little goody in each store. if not, you will spend this beautiful summer day n your room.) Store 1: they walked in & started to scatter like a covey of quail. They were both wild-eyed & overstimulated, completely out of tune with her. She caught them both & swatted them - ONCE - on the butt each & said, "You two are behaving abominably! No gum here. You have 2 more chances." The swat focused them on HER, not the bright lights & colors. By store 3, they had accumulated a pack of gum, a coloring book, & a ball. Not a bad haul. But that was the only thing that brought them to the here & now, centered on Mom's words & their surroundings. Probably saved their lives more than once, too. She stopped spanking by the time they were 10 or 11, changed to other disciplines appropriate for their age & the severity of the crime. The pair are about to graduate college, dean's list little brainiacs both. But again, one, maybe 2 swats. On the butt. No screaming, no swearing. And neither are particularly violent today.

Something I have not seen on this discussion board is the fact that kids are all different. Some will react to one form of dicipline and not to others. I had three boys. Two of those boys were active extroverts who lived for sports. I also had another son that could easily stay in his room for days without coming out except to eat. The two "sports kids" would go nuts when grounded to their room with no games to play or tv to watch. The other child, a spanking put the fear of God into him. It didnt even have to be much of a spanking, just the threat. So different children will respond to the same thing differently. Same as adults, imagine that! You work out what works best for each child and then DO IT. Be consistant. Adults need to be just that, adults!

It's amazing that the older generation all think spanking is okay but parents today raising kids, totally disagree with spanking. My parents spank me (not very often) and I grew up just fine. My husband has 2 daughters, 5 & 7. He is totally against spanking in any form. I think that it's okay as long as its not out of anger or in public. They do get timeouts, counting til 3, etc. Most of the time those work..but 1 hour later there back doing the same thing. *Sigh* I've read a few comments about threatening to spank the child...does that really work? I'm new at being a stepmom and I know I'm not great at it. Punishment is the worst for me. Any ideas?

Maybe we should also examine who the parents are... and by that I mean, are you a parent who seeks to be your child's best friend, or are you the parent who seeks to parent and raise a child, not a chum?

Just a thought... not sure what it means or where it's going, but I would expect some differences...

Let me tell you two tales. I'm 36 now. My father died when I was 7 and I was raised by my mother and some uncles who would take care of me from time to time. They were all military men and were probably the worst disciplinarians I have ever seen. More so since I wasn't really thier own kid. I was pretty rebellous so I always seem to see both sides of the belt.

I grew up, went to collage and now work as a professional in a large pharma.

My brother (from a different father) on the other hand, rarely received any punishments growing up and in fact almost made my mom lose custody one day. When my mom was fed up and finally spanked him, he told his teacher and she had to convince a judge why they shouldn't take him away into protective custody.

Where is he now. He's 20, a drop out and doesn't want to work. He is the laziest person I have ever met and keeps telling me that he's going to be a nurse, but doesn't even go to a JC.

I have a son and I don't think I'd ever use a belt on him, but I won't say that I won't spank him either. Never break a child's spirit. Make them respect you, but don't make them hate you.

The true abuse in my opinion is watching someone waste his life because he can't even discipline himself to find a job or finish school.

Hitting is hitting, no matter what name you give it.  And violence begets violence.  Hitting (spanking) is violence, especially an adult hitting a child.  When kids are hit in the home, they go out and hit others.  This is what they're taught, what they've learned, and then what they do to others.  When respect is shown in the home, they learn to respect others.  All children will meltdown and misbehave - but there are many ways of dealing with it and correcting it that do not include violence or hitting/spanking.  See "How to Talk So Kids Will Listen, and Listen so Kids will Talk" by Faber & Mazlish.  This one was very helpful for me in learning a new way.  I was hit/spanked as a child and know the hate and separation from my parents it engendered.  Not something I wanted to do with my child.  There are many other healthy and helpful resources out there.  Educate yourselves, find better ways than hitting to correct behavior.  It may be a little work and take you outside your zone of familiarity, but your child will learn respect, negotiation, and communication skills (emotionally healthy skills) rather than just hit 'em until they give in and do what you want.  This healthier approach will create a much more peaceful population than hitting/spanking could ever produce.  Violence begets violence.  It's not lack of spanking that's created a violent society, it's that violence has created a violent society.

Another clue here - if people feel they have to do it (spank/hit their children) out of the public eye, then they must feel it's a shameful, wrong thing to do that must be hidden.  If it's so ok, then why won't you do it in public?  Why hide it behind closed doors?  Why do you feel it must be hidden?  Abuse and wrong things are things that are done behind closed doors....  Just something to think about...

I am very saddened by the percentage of parents who still feel that spanking is good. Recently, the Today Show mentioned a study in which it was found that children who are spanked test five points lower in I.Q. than those who are not spanked. This should have been part of this morning’s discussion. Other studies show without a doubt how a child's brain development is very much correlated with parenting practices. Parents who talk more to their infants and toddlers, who read to them, who use more affirmations and fewer prohibitions, who use questions instead of commands, and who ask kids to make choices; have children with healthier and smarter brains. Non-verbal parents who use spanking and a higher percentage of prohibitions have children who enter school with poorly developed brains.

I am now 72. Today two of our three children are successful award winning scientists and one is a successful writer. We have five grandchildren who are doing well in school. I did not learn parenting from my parents. When our children were toddlers I was an art teacher. I was in grad school in the summers. I was lucky that my education gave me ideas to inspire kids to experiment and to express themselves creatively. My professor told us that Dr. Jerome Kagan of Harvard was recommending that we talk to infants to make them more intelligent. Responding to an infant self-empowers the infant. The brain develops. My wife, a nurse, was very caring and had wonderful parenting instincts. When our toddlers misbehaved, she did not tell them to stop it. She intervened by giving them positive choices of things to do that they enjoyed. Good behavior was nurtured in ways that spanking would not have provided. Our kids learned to experiment, to make choices, to create art, music, drama, and play. They got positive reinforcement for their good choices. When spanking is an option, it insidiously replaces many of these better options with frustration and bitterness.

My mother was abused as a child and as a result, I was never spanked. However, as a mother I have found it to be effective if used properly. It was only done in rare circumstances and for the times where our daughter was especially bad (we combined this with time-outs) and never to the point of really hurting or bruising or injuring. As she got older we relied on loss of privileges. She is completely well adjusted and does very well in school. My mother was beaten with hair brushes and shoes and I do NOT condone that behavior. I do believe there is a fine line and my husband and I did our best to not cross it.